Monday, September 7, 2009

SOME HONEST COMMENTS

. . .from an ardent Zionist

Israel's Jewish and Zionist character are inherently opposed to true, liberal Western-style democracy (original emphasis). Israel is, by definition, a Jewish state, which means that Jews must be the majority of the population. Israel's people, culture, religion, language, holidays and character are thoroughly Jewish. Even if an Arab has equality before the law and the right to vote, he is automatically culturally alienated from a state which belongs to another people.

. . .All lovers of Israel must realize that Israel, as long as it is a Jewish state, can never be a perfect democracy in the sense of Canada or the United States. This is not meant to criticize or deligitimize Israel- it is simply the stating of a fact.

Similarly, Israel can never have a complete separation of Synagogue and State, as is in the United States. Whatever role religion should play in the public sphere, most Israelis agree that it is important for Judaism to play a role in the Jewish State. For the concept of a Jewish state to have any significance, Israel must have some sort of Jewish character.

Here we see the fundamental flaws of liberal Israel advocacy. Israel will never be a perfect democracy, nor will it ever be thoroughly American or Western, if it is to be Jewish.

. . .Peace is an important goal for Israel, but it is not the most important goal. The quest for peace does not give Israel its right to exist, nor does its democratic government or Western leanings make it the morally superior party. After all, one could easily establish a democratic, Western regime on the stolen lands of another nation, as was the case in Canada, the United or India, for example. After appropriating native land, it is only natural for this country to seek peace with the conquered.

. . .To all those who charge Israel with the most vile of crimes, with "occupation, "ethnic cleansing", "theft of land", our answer most not be of saying that Israel wants peace, or that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle-East. The fact that Israel is the United State's greatest ally is irrelevant to this accusation. Our answer must be that of Simon the Maccabee, which he wrote to the Seleucid king Antiochus: "We have neither taken foreign land nor seized foreign property, but only the inheritance of our fathers, which at one time had been unjustly taken by our enemies. Now that we have the opportunity, we are firmly holding the inheritance of our fathers." There is no "Palestinian people", nor was there ever, nor will there ever be.

6 comments:

Don Emmerich said...

Thanks for posting this.

You're right -- it's honest. It's completely honest. Israel is not a democracy. Israel does not believe in equal rights. Etc.

Now I find this view abhorrent. And I don't know how this blogger can live with himself. What a sick soul he must have.

But I so badly wish more Zionist crazies were this honest. Of course, most of them are smarter than this jerk, and they realize how appalling the rest of the world would find such honesty. If people only knew…

Bar Kochba said...

Aren't you smiling in glee, my little anti-Zionist friend? My point was not that Israel is not a democracy or that it does not respect human rights. It most certainly does value human rights. Israel is the only country in the Middle-East with a free press, free speech, free elections, freedom of religion, etc. (I have a question about your selective outrage: When was the last time elections were held in Saudi Arabia? How many non-Muslims participated? The answer is obvious- you care little for democracy, but rather use every excuse you can to attack the Jewish state).

I have a problem with those who argue as if the legitimacy of Israel depends on being a Western democracy. Israel draws its legitimacy from the Jewish ties to the land of Israel. The goal of Zionism is not "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" but rather the return of the Jewish people to its land and its revival there. How abhorrent! Similarly, the goal of Quebecois nationalists is not to build a democracy, but to obtain sovereignty for Quebec.

The only way that Israel can be a Jewish state is if it has a Jewish majority. Surrounded by 100 million Arabs in 22 Arab states, it is difficult to believe that it is too much to ask the world to accept a puny stretch of land inhabited by Jews who wish to control their own destiny. Every people in the world deserves their own country and to rule themselves, and obviously that can only happen when they are the majority in their own country. I know that you support the Tibetan in their struggle against China. You must be aware that the Chinese have been transferring ethnic Han Chinese to Tibet in order to make Tibetans a minority in their own land. Are the Tibetans racist for knowing that there an be no Tibet when non-Tibetans are the majority?

The world is full of ethnic republics, in which pure Western democracy is not appropriate. The Serbs who fought for their own independence will certainly not allow it to be lost by having Albanians become the majority, all in the name of democracy. Every Slovak knows that there could be no Slovakia if the Czechs were the majority. I suppose that you believe Slovakia to be an apartheid state as well.

Russia has laws for the repatriation of Russians living in FSU. Germany had the same for granting automatic citizenship to ethnic Germans, after the reunification of Germany. Only Israel has hatred heaped upon it for its Law of Return. Of course, being a Jew is not ethnic and anybody can become Jewish.

You completely ignored the point of my article, which is the indisputable Jewish rights to the Land of Israel. Here is my question for you, one I have asked many times and have yet to receive an answer: Why do you support every national independence movement, except condemn the Jewish national liberation movement as racist and abhorrent? Why is every people entitled their own country except for the Jews?

Don Emmerich said...

"Why do you support every national independence movement, except condemn the Jewish national liberation movement as racist and abhorrent? Why is every people entitled their own country except for the Jews?"

Well I'm assuming you're asking me that question, so let me answer it for you. I'm an individualist. I believe that every human being has the right to live his life free from the violence of others. Therefore, I oppose all national independence movements insofar as they violate the rights of others.

Yes, I agree that Saudi Arabia, and in fact all governments, are atrocious. But this in no way justifies the atrocities of the Israeli government. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As far as Jews having “indisputable” rights to the “Land of Israel”--well I’m a Jew, but I don’t think I have the right to force Arabs living in, say, the West Bank to leave their homes. Your theology, my friend, is screwed-up. Your theology has turned you into a monster. Have the past few millennia taught us nothing? Have they not taught us what it’s like to be a second-class citizen, what it’s like to be treated like a dog? So how then can you turn around and support such a barbaric government?

Don Emmerich said...

You know, I shouldn't have said that your theology's turned you into a monster. I definitely think your views on this matter are monstrous, but I don't even know you, so who the hell am I to disparage your character? So I'm sorry for saying that.

Bar Kochba said...

Beautiful that you are an individualist. It seems that Jews are always a step ahead, and more "moral", than the rest of the world. Universalism, assimilation and individualism has gotten us nowhere. It is a goat path out of Judaism and the Jewish people. The Jewish nation is one people, with one destiny, and one land. We have seen a world without a Jewish state, a terrible place where we were humiliated, persecuted, massacred, oppressed and slaughtered. We will never return to such a world.

Young Activist said...

Humanity is one people, with one destiny, and one land. Nationalism has gotten us nothing but humiliation, persecution, massacres, oppression, and slaughter. We will never support such a concept.